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| Knowing vs. Intuition http://www.aeoluskephas.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=795 |
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| Author: | Marks and Noises [ Tue Mar 02, 2010 9:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Knowing vs. Intuition |
Ghost of Elvis wrote: Bringing it back to the earlier point then: there are two ways you can go, one is inward, deeper into what you do know; the other is outward, and upward, looking for more to know. Being, and becoming. It becomes increasingly clear to me that the latter is actually the surest way to come out of that little bit we do know. Even the "pull to become," as you put it, goes against a very simple knowing, that the little we do know is enough. We may never fathom the mystery of being that is a chair. Yet we are not interested in chairs; we want to know the galaxy. An interesting metaphor occurs to me here: the oceans of the planet are largely unexplored; yet instead of exploring them we fill them with toxic waste and garbage, and focus our gaze on the stars. The ocean then is considered beneath our interest; besides which, it's full of shit! The stars, man! That's where it's at. Please. In this analogy, the ocean represents our unconscious being. I am on board with all of this, but why is going inward "being" and going outward "becoming"? You said it yourself, they are both ways of going somewhere. The making conscious of the psyche certainly seems to me like a process with some kind of trajectory and developmental logic to it. Quote: A caterpillar doesn't feel any pull to become a butterfly. It feels a pull to go inside the chrysalis, lay its head down, and die. That's all any of us get to do. But this is just the flip side of sugarcoating the process. A caterpillar may not feel a pull to become a butterfly, but it feels a pull to do something. A change of state is anticipated and entered into. An itch appears and must be scratched. To use another analogy: when you're hungry, you feel a discomfort and this discomfort compels you to look for food. You wouldn't think for a moment that you ought not "put your hands" on the grub - that is precisely what you are supposed to do. But when the discomfort appears in your soul instead of your gut, suddenly all the people with the answers wag their fingers at you. Why is that? If this itch is not meant to be scratched, why do I feel it? |
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| Author: | Ghost of Elvis [ Tue Mar 02, 2010 10:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Knowing vs. Intuition |
Marks and Noises wrote: If this itch is not meant to be scratched, why do I feel it? In order to become warmly okay with itching? |
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| Author: | Marks and Noises [ Tue Mar 02, 2010 11:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Knowing vs. Intuition |
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| Author: | Ghost of Elvis [ Tue Mar 02, 2010 11:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Knowing vs. Intuition |
 Marks and Noises wrote: But this is just the flip side of sugarcoating the process. A caterpillar may not feel a pull to become a butterfly, but it feels a pull to do something. A change of state is anticipated and entered into. An itch appears and must be scratched. The flip side of sugarcoating the process would be what: coating a sugar pill with bitterness? All I am doing is removing the sugar coat and stating it as it is. And a caterpillar doesn't have to "do" anything, except maybe make it to the right place at the right time for its putrefaction to begin. And even there, if it doesn't, then the process will probably start without him.  The point is: butterfly-ness is wonderfully none of the caterpillar's business. The caterpillar's discomfort or effort or desire has no influence over the transformation process. Neither, I'd say, does ours. |
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| Author: | Magus Arts [ Wed Mar 03, 2010 12:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Knowing vs. Intuition |
Marks and Noises wrote: And if "being in your knowing" is an option and "coming out of your knowing" is another, then "knowing" also begins to seem a lot like a "doing" to me. 'Being in your knowing' is something that happens when you surrender the need to do anything about whatever is keeping you out of it. 'Coming out of your knowing' happens as a natural result of your person refusing to remain in a surrendered state; it's a reflex, like gasping for air when your lungs are deprived of oxygen. Surrender could be seen as a doing, maybe the only thing you can do to move beyond your surface person that refuses to let consciousness remain in a state of knowing.Marks and Noises wrote: Still though, I've had some really strong noetic experiences that made it very clear to me that I know a lot more than I'm letting on. It's just that I don't know that I know it. And this becomes a problem, because that state where I knew that I knew was so much cleaner and more lucid that having lost it feels like standing at the edge of the Great Doubt and looking down the well. For all the 'power' of our rational faculties, their only application towards knowing is showing us the outlines of its area. It's like a fractal: the set of numbers that makes up the set is the black space within - that is knowing, the infinite complexity of the edges is where the mind tests the edges of knowing, but its trajectory is only varying steps of iteration away from becoming infinitely far from knowing.
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| Author: | 302 [ Wed Mar 03, 2010 12:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Knowing vs. Intuition |
Ghost of Elvis wrote: Marks and Noises wrote: If this itch is not meant to be scratched, why do I feel it? In order to become warmly okay with itching? what is the it that it itches  Ghost of Elvis wrote: We may never fathom the mystery of being that is a chair. Yet we are not interested in chairs; we want to know the galaxy. scratCHair
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| Author: | Magari [ Wed Mar 03, 2010 2:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Knowing vs. Intuition |
The biggest difference to me is that when I know something its almost impossible to convince myself otherwise, however intuition is normally something fairly new to my thought pattern therefore is harder to 'cement' into a knowing. I think one of the tricks we should be working on is thinning the gap between the two. Therefore allowing us to trust our intuition as much as what we know. |
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| Author: | Ultrasoup [ Wed Mar 03, 2010 8:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Knowing vs. Intuition |
thinking more about what i have considered my experience of intuition, it seems it is something that can be doubted, or dismissed, followed, or ignored. it always seems to be related to action and consequence, and offers up some kind of choice. with knowing, perhaps choice is irrelevant. i have probably mistaken intuition for knowing a lot. when i think about what i know, i come back to what my body knows in spite of me and was mentioned earlier in this thread: breathing, digesting, growing my bones as a child, etc. i also know that i love my children, there doesen't seem to be any room for choice or doubt there and i don't need to use my mind to understand and know that love. and somewhere in my body is the knowing of it's death, i'm pretty sure, though i don't know if i've ever really been in that knowing. i just began reading "the biology of transcendence," by joseph chilton pearce this morning and the following passages are from the preface to part one: "The experience arose from a kind of pseudo-suicidal recklessness that seized me, an "I couldn't care less" disregard of consequence that bordered on the irrational. Pushing this reckless abandon to extremes led to a breakthrough of knowing that took place within me with no transition or preparation. I discovered how to bypass my body's most ancient instincts of self-preservation, which resulted in a temporary absence of all fear and subsequent abandonment of all caution. This enabled me, at particular times, to accomplish things that would have been considered impossible under the ordinary conditions of our world." he goes on to describe a demonstration to his dorm-mates, using up a full pack of cigarettes with lit ends pressed up against different parts of his body, that fire did not have to burn him. he claims to have experienced no pain and shown no trace of trauma on his skin the next day. he goes on: "This sort of unconflicted behavior manifested, it seemed, from a split-second recognition, without qualification or rationale, that death was a foregone conclusion, an integral part of that very event, that death was already within me. Death was not a possibility to be avoided but a fact to be accepted as it was already accomplished - death had already happened." |
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| Author: | 302 [ Wed Mar 03, 2010 8:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Knowing vs. Intuition |
Ultrasoup wrote: "This sort of unconflicted behavior manifested, it seemed, from a split-second recognition, without qualification or rationale, that death was a foregone conclusion, an integral part of that very event, that death was already within me. Death was not a possibility to be avoided but a fact to be accepted as it was already accomplished - death had already happened." came to this conclusion while on a low dose of psilocybin while standing in a video store surrounded by hundreds of movies stories contained in their boxes it was so clear "anything that has an end, has happened" by the way the movie ended up watching was "rules of attraction" quite an experience at the time while this topic is open in a sense your fathers ejaculatory convulsions are synonymous with your dying breaths the cock creates death the womb allows the temporality of the fruits |
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| Author: | Ultrasoup [ Wed Mar 03, 2010 9:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Knowing vs. Intuition |
Quote: in a sense your fathers ejaculatory convulsions are synonymous with your dying breaths yup. i look at my son and think how this being was at one point just an evil glint in my eye 
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