Stormy Weather Forum

Hatred of the self reinforces illusion of self.. surrender.. SURRENDER. Who will surrender? Who is it that surrenders? What is it that surrenders? Surrender to what exactly? Chinese finger trap. There are some fundamentals here that just seem off kilter.. so perhaps one of the in crowd nobody-somebodies can elucidate this for me? It seems to me like saying- "God doesn't exist.. and he's stupid anyways."

Do you ever think you might be transferring your personal narrative's early traumatic experiences back out onto the macrocosm as some sort of cosmological principle of original wound/sin? It is possible to have rapturous imprints instead of traumatic ones. It seems to me that the self-victim is being reinforced by such proclamations of truth about our "flawed nature"..?

Me dumb. Me no get. Me think you try. But you try for reason...bad!

I have these reservations, too. There seems to be a general tendency here to polarize experience into various kinds of dualisms, and this makes alarm bells go off in my head. In the East, you know, they don't do this kind of thing, and I would say they are on the whole rather less schizophrenic in their mysticism over there. Hsin is both heart and mind, and ordinary mind is the Buddha.

Also to Ghost's comment in the other thread that this is intellectualizing, I will say this. A lot of what you say rests on this kind of polarity, and on the drawing up of demarcation lines in the psyche, lines that split apart things like cognition and emotion, the intellect and the body, the mind and the heart, and so on and so forth. Well this kind of carving up of your psychic life into discrete chunks is nothing if not the work of the intellect - division work. So it can and should be subject to conceptual analysis, there's no excuse for it not to be.

I hear so much of thi, what one aspect of me would like to judge as, nonsense of heart space, right brain, get into your body, get into your heart, get out of your head. Share your emotions not your thoughts. It frustrates me because its inaccurate and sadly quite a clear expression.

My frustration is in the lack of awareness, of those who use flowery dualisms, hoping to direct themselves and others to the desired state of ....... expression......mmmmm, thinking!

Don't we use "intellect" to communicate from our feelings, or "heart" also? If there was a differentiation of space; heart or head, that would be a case for intriguing multiplicity, another tangent, but in this case, who cares, because, in this context, they are metaphors.
I agree that this reflectiveness is all mind, attributing quality to these differentiations. I think there is something to say for the state of this mind-intellect; where the intention and purpose of this thinking rests.

It seems that the form , state, or quality of thought, or intellect, changes based on the purpose, focus, and quality of the meaning wanting to be shared.

A good example is the process of communicating feelings. Heart talk. Is happy or sad a feeling? Or it is a thought, a descriptive word for a variety of sensations i feel? I think it would be more accurate to say i feel in relation to how i feel in my body. This form of thinking is a direct reference to my senses, which actually feel. Happy = open, light, at ease, excited....etc

So, i think that this polarization of mind, body, spirit, are somewhat tradgic organizational metaphors for how we direct our cognitive function. A thought form of general intellectualism, differs greatly than a thought form of feeling based / emotionality, very different, visibly different, though it is still us thinking and sensing.

And potentially the foundation of thought, in the personal aim of sensation or body communicated meaning, could seemingly dissolve and bring forth an altered state, new forms of reflectiveness and interpretation, that differs so much from general cognition, that we just, must call it, a spiritual experience.

It's my fault, I set SWEDA up in such a way that it seems like an intellectual exercise, when it's anything but. There really isn't any point in arguing the tenets of sweda, because unless you've started to live them, they are just ideas.

I'm not gonna fall back on, "You are using your intellects while I am in my knowing," that would be very tacky (though perhaps accurate). But I will say I was once where you are now, back when i was Jake; and Jake would have probably come up with the same arguments as some people here do.

The mind-control of reliance on intellect goes deep; you can argue anything with words, and so those who believe the propositions of the intellect will always win their arguments, if only because they care enough to keep on arguing until no one else is interested. At SWEDA, we can wash your brain of all that cultural gunk for you; but only if you are willing to have it washed.

The question of whether sweda works or not is obviously one you don't want to discuss with the leader, since you already know what he's gonna say. You would want to discuss it with those who've been through it.

Evidently though, there are some lively intellectual beings present who wish to get the captain's attention and do some sparring with him, not out of interest in sweda, but as a way to show off their intellectual chops.

A few months ago, I might have been happy to engage, but not these daze. Arguing what I already know is fruitless and not very enjoyable. I just wind up being a salesman.

This may sound like "I only have time for those who agree with me," but that's the intellect's view again. What I really mean is, if you don't already get what I'm doing, and how and why, from my podcasts, then you are probably wasting your time here. There's nothing I could possibly add to the bulk of material I have already put out there.

This space is for people who do get it and want to go deeper.

The rest of you can fuck off.

I'm not trying to "spar" with you.. you project a lot.. Is this how your brother treated you growing up? I'm sorry- it must have been rough growing up under such juvenile judgement. I can tell you are trying to work through it though so good luck with that. I just asked you a couple of questions. Sorry, if your constructed identity can't handle it. Did I challenge your territorial instincts? If you are such a rock star with your own wikipedia page and forum where you can be THE WORD and the only intellect is your intellect.. this is a medium of the intellect so try not to love yourself and your own vanishing point so much. People can pay to talk to the constructed identity of no identity. You have a vested interest in maintaining a identity, the non-identity identity, in order to sell a product- access to behind the boundary where you can be the biggest fish in the pond and everyone can subsume themselves into your morphogenic field like agent smith, you love your own reflection and want to replicate it. The sad part is that you love it so much that like narcissus- you've fallen in the pond... and you've confused your ego for your angel.. drawing a line between your mind-body from your spirit and the tree is reversed.. qlippoth- the roots of the tree are festering with parasites and they need to breed.. they need to suck the essence. They need more shells.

The name of the Dweller in the Abyss is Choronzon, but he is not really an individual. The Abyss is empty of being; it is filled with all possible forms, each equally inane, each therefore evil in the only true sense of the word—that is, meaningless but malignant, in so far as it craves to become real. These forms swirl senselessly into haphazard heaps like dust devils, and each such chance aggregation asserts itself to be an individual and shrieks, "I am I!" though aware all the time that its elements have no true bond; so that the slightest disturbance dissipates the delusion just as a horseman , meeting a dust devil, brings it in showers of sand to the earth."

So as for deconstructing identity- Come sit on my couch sometime or better yet I don't want to turn into a judgmental authoritative celebrity. I'd recommend to let go of your teacher mask and open yourself again to the source, happiness, your laughter, your heart. Quit hating your mother, Jake, your body, your brother, your podcasts, your forum, your listeners, yourself, and your life.. because your identity is illusion.. so it's death is an illusion.. The end and death is ever present.. but the beginning is ever present.. because there is only the present.. Wake up Jake!

Well, I for one think sparring would be fun, but if you don't want to, it's cool.
And I do get it, I think. Sometimes when I'm quiet I say to myself, "everything would be alright if I would just stop fucking thinking." And that's probably true.

But in all seriousness, the intellect isn't just this gaping cavity for the bad shit to come through and muck up your works. It's a sensory organ, and being comes at you through it. Sometimes that being is culture, you know. What can you do? You can't just clog it up and look the other way. And I'm not just trying to stir things up or beat a dead horse, or whatever. I really think this is important. So here's a personal example.

I read RD Laing's The Divided Self the other day. It's a great book. I think everyone here should read it. But you know, it's just a book. Well I read this book and it came at me through the intellect, but it hit my body like shrapnel. I was twitching and shivering and feeling like I was coming apart for a minute or two (a while longer actually, but I don't want to sound psychotic or anything). A book. And usually I think to myself, why am I reading all this crap? Why don't I go outside and go for a hike or something? Ride a bike. Walk my dog. But then something like this happens and I remember why. One minute I'm just playing around with abstractions in my head, but in the next minute those abstractions resolve into a pattern, and I see the pattern and there is this gestalt of recognition that goes all the way through. So what is that? Is it just the intellect?

Your kinda kidding and serious? So, i need some more posts for my 5, so ill take it as your being a little serious and say that i think thats bullshit Jake! hehe... i hope people are here for discussion and disagreement? I hope im not misunderstanding....but...

Quite simplistic jungian analysis? Your denying responsibility for how you act and how those actions effect others. A archetypal bypass, " because you are here as our tulpas, and you are disowned thematic parts, lol, ( that was funny though), we (you) act as automata, without care, or awareness of others?" We get to spread our "shadow" thus triggering yours, and you gotta deal with it, but dont ask us for understanding how you may experience that, and if that matters, cause were just existing... la la la... Also the common mirror generality... yuck. "because i dont want to or am uncomfortable to deal with how im acting and feeling,", denying creative rights, thus automata, i will put it on "you" as, its an "opportunity", for "me" to teach you that me acting this way, that probably is not really fulfilling me or obviously you, is something unaware in "you". That i AM, not could be seen as, but AM, a mirror of your hidden and suppressed subconscious shadow. gross simplification.. right? Bypass 101? In theory, pop-jungianism, somewhat, yes but...... Sure, it "triggers" past related hurts, or fears, projecting the hidden outwards, but this automata action still stimulates realness in the other in them now, besides the shadow triggers.
hehe...
Who appointed you button pusher without empathy role?



You did obviously:) IT sucks for you to experience your shadow in the outer forum? im confused.

I think this experience of yours is something like what i was hopefully trying to illustrate in my above post.

Is it a certain quality of mind experienced in a non-ordinary state filled with meaningful sensory metaphors? All that jumbled bullshit makes sense to me, but i wonder,

how do you differentiate the abstraction patterns that led to this sensory meanings and other ways you think? When you problem solve, analyze, evaluate, judge, comprehend, apply?????

I "think" that thinking with that intuitive fresh edge "can" be actually a form listening and allowing the unconscious imaginal qualities to present these patterns of metaphor and sense to impress upon us... as if a form of thinking is actually experiencing... or something like that; Some form of witnessing comes out of an conceptualization which detaches from its foundational figuring, analyzing, right, wrong, striving potential humble beginnings...

letting the fullness come... then BOOM... shivers, movement, rhythm, surrender, cries....understanding.....